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Wing controls- tried, tested, still awful

Home FORUMS Robocraft Discussions General Robocraft Chat Wing controls- tried, tested, still awful

This topic contains 16 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  UNITGX48 4 days, 16 hours ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #2094551

    jimmymcgoochie
    Participant

    Yes, I’m STILL going on about this. No, I don’t intend to stop any time soon.

    After several weeks of trying very hard to use the new wing controls following the super-wings upgrade, I remain absolutely committed to my pre-update belief that the new wing controls are VASTLY inferior to the old ones in pretty much every way. The new system with all those auto-balance, auto-turn, auto-everything artificially controlling your movements is simply not as good as controlling your flight manually in several key ways:

    -You can’t pull a basic split-S/immelmann, the staple moves of any fighter pilot in a close-range dogfight. This matters because if you find yourself flying over something like the cave system on ophuchius valley or the wreck of the Vanguard and are either chasing an enemy or being chased yourself, you previously had the option of rolling upside-down then pulling a half-loop to reverse your direction of flight and fly through said cave/massive shipwreck/etc. The same applies the other way, flying through a cave then looping up and going back the way you came over the top of it. New controls don’t let you do that without a massive redesign solely to break through the auto-flight limiters.

    -You can’t control your roll rate using keyboard controls, AT ALL. Turning is an all-or-nothing feature with no finesse and no real control over your rate of turn, which IS available with camera controls. Full control over how far your plane rolls left or right is vital for proper flight especially in close-quarters aerial battles or to fly evasively to not get shot down by the swarms of (mega) rail campers that have risen in popularity ever since the new wings were released. Hitting a plane with an obvious flight profile, like rolling to the left a bit to make a long, flat left turn, is far easier than hitting a plane that changes its roll angle and with it its turn radius continuously AND can suddenly start pitching down too to be banking left but turn right unexpectedly. If it dodges one rail shot, that one rail shot could be the difference between survival and destruction.

    -There’s almost no skill in flying a plane any more. Any idiot can press left to turn left, press up to go up- the controls are really dull and that combined with a total lack of finesse puts a fairly low skill ceiling on them. Skill ceilings are what destroys games, and there’s absolutely no reason to do that considering there’s already a no-skill option for movement control- CAMERA CONTROLS. CC are for people who need/want the assists on, making it easy to use but limiting what you can do; keyboard controls have always been the difficult mode, making it harder to control your bot especially with considerable damage but allowing you to do stuff that simply isn’t possible with the assists on. Think of a high-performance sports car: keep the stability and traction controls on and it’s driveable by all but the most unco-ordinated, ham-fisted drivers; turn them all off and the chances of ending up in a hedge goes up, but in the hands of a talented racing driver the lap times on a track will be substantially faster. The old controls turned everything off; the new ones keep everything jammed on at maximum assists, which stops you doing the best manoeuvres and also sucks most of the fun out of flying too- if I want to do a barrel roll for no reason other than because I want to do a barrel roll, I should be allowed to do a barrel roll!

    I’m not saying that the new wings in and of themselves are bad- the sound and visual effects are good, the built-in thrust is useful and the VTOL ability also quite good (though it works far beyond what a VTOL system should- hover height is high enough!) and the extra speed is definitely a bonus. Nor am I saying that the new flight assists are inherently bad- they’ll make flying a plane much easier and broaden their use but- and this is the critical bit- FOR CAMERA CONTROLS ONLY. Keyboard controls has always been unassisted, purely reliant on player skill and adding all these unwanted interfering limiters to keyboard controls too is indefensible. If a camera controls player can’t do a loop or a spiral dive but a keyboard controls player can, that’s A GOOD THING: using skill to be better than other people is what games are all about, and if it encourages the CC players to learn to fly using KC and become skilled then that’s even better. Judging by some of the players I’ve come across lately, skill is one thing a good part of the player base is sorely lacking…

    I don’t actually use any of my numerous planes any more, partly because of the number of AA/rail bots out there but mostly because I just can’t stand the controls. I was looking forward to the wing upgrade, hoping for manual rudder controls to be added and upgraded carry capacity to counter the weight normalisation that made most planes, especially cube-heavy artbots, quite a bit heavier; instead the carry mass went DOWN for most wings in response to the diminishing returns being removed which helped “mega planes” (which shouldn’t be a thing, EVER) but really hurt a lot of art-planes making at least two of mine unable to fly due to increased weight and decreased carry capacity.

    I’m sure that other people out there feel the same way about wings, and after giving it a few weeks without a whisper about a controls redesign I’m putting this out there in the hopes that it’ll persuade Freejam to do so. If getting back the old axial (pitch/roll/yaw(?)) controls means losing the VTOL ability I won’t care at all- most of my planes could take off and land well enough without it by design- and even if it means losing the ability to make those really tight stall-turns that wings do now (no doubt due to the VTOL thrust vectoring) I can live with that too- the days of flying by pure skill and pulling spectacular aerial stunts to get a difficult final shot at an enemy are far better than the current setup where you can’t even pull a half-loop because of some overbearing algorithm blocking you. Skill should be the core of any game especially one like Robocraft- build, drive, fight are all activities which should benefit from player skill- but the new wing controls take that away.

    Please, Freejam, put it back and restore wings to their former high-skill glory instead of swapping the skill floor for a skill ceiling and making them “wheels in the sky”, which is boring and no fun at all. I’ve used wings since the day they were released and some of my planes can trace their roots back to those days, but now they’re just gathering dust because there’s no fun in flying any more and the addition of the unnecessary mega rail has added the final nail in the coffin. Instead of bringing planes back into the game, you’ve managed to ruin them for good; fix them now and they can come back again the way they always should have been.

    #2094552

    Demindiro
    Participant

    +1

    #2094553

    Shadow_The_Wolf
    Participant

    I agreed with this sentiment back then, still agree with it now.

    #2094561

    Wessmania
    Participant

    So much +++++

    The forced controls are what kills them.
    No flying upside down, no rolling, no down pitch. ITS CRIPPLING, SHACKLING for an experienced user.

    Dogfighting, dogding, peek-a-boo tactics, it has all been NERFED by your “improvements” FJ.
    You have killed foils for everyone that loved them.

    #2094563

    ShuTingYu
    Participant

    +1

    #2094564

    Kakasimas
    Participant

    +999999999 | Too bad they will never revert to the old wings.

    #2094572

    Avir
    Participant

    I can see them keeping this type of movement for wings in Infinity, i’ts probably difficult to both aim and control your plane at the same time with a joystick with the old controls, although I’ve always used M&K to play Robocraft, so forgive me if I’m wrong here. But I do not like the forced movement assistance on the wings one bit, There’s not a single reason to keep that around for Robocraft PC.

    #2094577

    Jiggyhound2
    Participant

    new controls are user friendly , ie- ‘dumbed down shite’. gamers tend to play games for a challenge not to have their hand held. give us back old controls, the new ones are boring, uninteresting, and mostly considered crap amongst players from what i can see.

    #2094596

    hracicka
    Participant

    +1

    #2094606

    FJ decimated the plane community with one update. I haven’t played since i tried them for the first time. Absolutely dreadful. Go look at the “Review you flying bots thread”…dead. just like actual flying and flyer engineering….well actually any “engineering” now. no intuitive physics (because future or something), everything is drive itself camera controls. NOT fun.

    Robocraft has deviated so far from where it started, and what got me hooked, that I’ve found other games that provide that.

    #2094610

    noobsqoou
    Participant

    Even as one who practically never flies anything, I too think that the loss of control was quite ridiculous. Would it have really been that hard to introduce a separate set of VTOL wings? Or even just a checkbox in the bot control config? These new wings just take all of the joy out of flying.

    Guess I’ll just stick to troll builds for wings 😛

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    #2094612

    BountySnipe
    Participant

    What was the point of removing these flight mechanics? I really want to use some of my flyers, but are held back by their lack of agility. Planes just mostly fly in a straight line now. A lot of fun was taken away from the changed aerofoil mechanics.

    #2094620

    hracicka
    Participant

    New wings are not wings. They are “Futuristic Wings” You can controll them like flying cars. Flying cars are futuristic .
    as you can see in
    STAR WARS
    flying car star wars
    FIFTH ELEMENT
    5th elementh flying car
    BLADE RUNNER
    blade runner
    or
    BACK TO THE FUTURE
    backtuthe future flyingcar

    (The first one who will find any wing can win 1000 robits)

    #2094626

    tmb048
    Participant

    Even as one who practically never flies anything, I too think that the loss of control was quite ridiculous. Would it have really been that hard to introduce a separate set of VTOL wings? Or even just a checkbox in the bot control config? These new wings just take all of the joy out of flying.
    Guess I’ll just stick to troll builds for wings 😛

    The most ridiculous parts is that VTOL wasn’t really needed, as planes were VERY easy to make hybrids with (Personally, the movement part that I’ve seen with the most hybrids were wings), and Rotors could already perform the VTOL function, so what they did was to make one kind of hybrid pointless (And they also killed quite a few other hybrids that involved planes).

    #2094666

    JediMasterkenobi
    Participant

    We all feel your pain buddy.

    I really don’t know why cant we have both types of wings at least, the new ones and the old ones.

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