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Landships, Capital Ships & Base Ships: The Lords of Ground-Bots.

Home FORUMS Robocraft Discussions Robo Engineering & Tips Landships, Capital Ships & Base Ships: The Lords of Ground-Bots.

This topic contains 2,611 replies, has 303 voices, and was last updated by  ZapadaROzz 6 days, 7 hours ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 2,612 total)
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  • #544022

    EDIT: The definition of the landship has been updated. It is now a bot with 1000-1199 pFLOPs of CPU dedicated to armour (where armour refers to armour cube and aerorods). Bots with 1200 or more pFLOPs of CPU dedicated to armour are now called Capitalships, which would probably require a thread of its own. With that said, landships will not be the largest classification of bots in terms of armour class.

    EDIT2: As of 22/11/2016, with the advent of the Fast and Formidable update and the increase of CPU limits to 2, 000pFLOPs, the definition of the Landship, Capital Ship and Base Ship has been updated as well:

    – For bots to qualify as Landships, it must have 1,200 – 1,399 pFLOPs of CPU dedicated to armour.

    – For bots to qualify as Capital Ships, it must have 1,400 – 1,599 pFLOPS of CPU dedicated to armour.

    – For bots to qualify as Base Ships, it must have 1,600 or more pFLOPS of CPU dedicated to armour.

    So I’ve been experiment quite a bit with viable robot designs that are unlike anything used by the common mass. Ever since the increase in the deadliness of plasma when the damage model of Robocraft has been changed to allow damage to spread completely throughout a bot, I had been trying to develop a type of bot that could withstand humongous amounts of damage.

    A landship, to me, is thus defined as a tank made up of over 1000 armour blocks, up to 1200+. It is the largest possible class of tank feasible, as being made up of anything above 1200+ armour cubes would mean a far too dramatic reduction in wheels and weapons. But moving on…

    I tried a mix of electroplates and high cube counts at first, but found that electroplates are not versatile enough, and will deteriorate rapidly at close-medium range. Moreover, electroplates are useful for compact bots mostly, such as flyers. So I’ve decided to stick with high cube counts. This means sacrificing everything else though – so no special cubes, no high-tiered wheels and less than 6 plasma guns. Here’s the first landship conceived, the M43 Everest Landship and it’s promising:

    However, the problem with it is that I’ve frivolously spent a huge amount of CPU on a grand total of some 20 wheels, 2 of which are slightly off the ground for off-road purposes but just won’t work anyway. Moreover, the side cannons are too entrenched in the armour to perform effectively. having identified the issues, a new landship was commissioned:

    The M46B Richter Landship was built with 12 wheels, freeing up precious CPUs to further enhance the landship’s armour, contributing to a slight increase in armour. It’s possible that there’s a slight decrease in speed however. The side cannons has been placed further out, making it easier to hit enemies with them. For a long time, it seemed like the pinnacle of landship technology, until another lightbulb lit up:

    The M49 Shiva Landship is the result of that epiphany, of how the landship’s armour could be further enhanced. This is done by spacing the armour – indeed, spaced armour has been around for about as long as plasma cannons, and it was only a matter of incorporating that ancient method of armour enhancement. This landship’s armour is hollow – the mainbody is double-spaced horizontally, while the armour on the sides protecting the wheels are spaced vertically. This technique reduces the amount of damage plasma could do to the landship, as plasma causes damage in a radius, and is able to penetrate surface armour with ease. Furthermore, it improves the damage control dramatically, as the damage would have to travel much, much further to be able to reach the pilot seat.

    This also has the effect of dramatically increasing the size of the landship, and it is a very common sight to see both friend and foe in awe of the landship. Furthermore, even more CPU was devoted to the armour, such that only 3 cannons of +1 tier could be placed.

    With the M50D Shiva II Landship, the main body’s armour became triple-spaced, freeing a bit of CPU, enough for a fourth cannon to be placed, solving the firepower crisis posed by the M49 Shiva Landship. For the first time, a landship has gained a special cube – a simple tier 1 radar, which gives it slight situational awareness. So far, it’s worked well, but there are still a few remaining problems that had previously been identified that needs fixing. For one thing, the weapons of a landship tends to be clustered closely together, which means it’s easier to get disarmed. Moreover, the wheels are clustered closely together, so a determined foe could immobilize it with enough effort.

    So far, my landships had all done very well, and has distinguished themselves as a new class of ground vehicles, one that doesn’t utilize a huge number of guns and yet could do extremely well against the enemy.

    #544057

    Ryu_Gemini
    Participant

    Well, you are hardly the first to design one of those. Lets just get that out of the way. Oversized tanks are already a thing. I have one, in fact.

    As for gun numbers, for plasmas that does indeed work, since recharge rate is lower with fewer of them. You might want to look into triforce armor a bit, just for the turrets though (so that damage to nearby blocks cannot spread into the turret’s foundation block), and plop each turret on a multiple-overtiered armor block.

    Suffice to say, at lower tiers these things are monsters of durability if made well (i.e. with lots of blocks and no remarkably weak connecting areas)

    As for mine… this was my first attempt. It was noticeably lacking triforce and just relied on sheer brute armor and having extra SMGs available (SMGs don’t work as well with fewer guns compared to plasma). The idea was to make a rather literal landship, but it ended up more of a barge.

    My second attempt was this. It actually came out looking a bit like a boat, though a bit flat perhaps. This one makes use of triforce mechanics for the turrets (they are not actually connected to the surrounding armor), so that while it has fewer of them than the original it definitely keeps them longer. I also had the idea of using contrails as the “wake.”

    Both landships are not as wheel-heavy as your early ones, the original having 4 pairs, and the current one having 5. The sheer amount of armor means that wheels are often one of the later things to finally die off. Using a plasma for designs like these is by all means viable.

    When I next attempt to rebuild it, I will probably try to make it taller if I can. Alternatively, I may simply try to make a flying sailboat with “cannons” sticking out holes in the side. Either way, it will be a boat.

    #544148

    lol you’re making literal landships… ships on land. Mine takes after those World War 1 early tanks instead, for example:

    But would reflect the insanity that was World War 2:

    But when you said that oversized tanks are already a thing, I find it hard to believe. You might be right if you’re referring to robots approaching the size of my early models, but I seriously doubt that anyone has built something approaching my latest models, which has so much space between its sheets of armour that it look like it’s made of 3000 CPU rather than 1500 CPU.

    In either case, oversized tanks with low mobility, low utility (radar, receivers, jammers, etc) and relatively ‘low’ firepower (hereby coined ‘landships’ in Robocraft) don’t seem to be very popular nor well-developed. I’d often wonder why. You said that it’s a viable configuration of robot, and from experience I can easily support your claim – in fact, landships are rapidly becoming my main kind of robot. Yet how is it that we don’t find armies of landships swarming the battles in Robocraft? Even in the higher tiers, landship presence is non-existent whatsoever, which is why I sincerely believed that no one has actually built such things…

    Thanks for the suggestion regarding triforce armour. I’ve known about it since shortly after the advent of the plasma cannons, in fact. I knew them by another name: Novikov Armour, after the first forum poster who wrote about it. I used to employ this technique in every build, but these days I’m not sure about using them anymore though, because I’m under the impression that with the lack of connecting points, the block holding the weapon would be extremely fragile as they are left connected with only one other cube (in your case it seems).

    I’m using spaced armour though, and I’ve recently introduced double and triple-spaced armour to make sure plasma doesn’t destroy more than what they hit.

    You know, I do have a landship that’s armed with SMGs and it’s doing pretty well. It could easily power through a group of 2-3 robots and could soundly obliterate its opponent in single combat. It’s armed with about 9 SMGs of the same tier as it is. It’s still the very first model of its kind though, but I might build a second model soon.

    Answering one of your sentences, I do think height is useful as it will allow you to shoot over obstacles and slopes, at the cost of your originally low profile though, which means possibly (or a flat out guarantee) getting shot at. I know, because my landships are rather tall, and are usually the tallest tank fielded in my team.

    #544169

    kamoba
    Participant

    Beautiful!

    #544222

    broken egg
    Participant

    Nice build . I wish we could have a ballistic turret ( if thats the right word ) like that one on the WWI tank . 2×2 blocks or something .

    I wouldn’t mind rolling around with something like that , but guns get blown off sooo easy .

    #544348

    Ryu_Gemini
    Participant

    Both my “boats” are actually the maximum length a tank in robocraft can currently be (though the second one does “look” smaller for some visual reason).

    That side, the reason you don’t see more of them is cost and CPU.

    At lower tiers, people don’t have the CPU for it. And people who drop back down for the fun of it usually go the overtierred gun approach, or use overtierred armor blocks. I can confirm that it is indeed fun to simply use your higher CPU to make something that is just plain big though.

    At higher tiers, it costs a lot to get all the armor blocks you need, even if you are willing to undertier by a rank. Additionally, by that time everyone has more CPU, so everyone starts having larger vehicles (and thus, your vehicles by comparison will not be as hugely oversized). Cost-wise, it is usually cheaper to just use electroplates rather than buy an equivalent number of same-rank armor blocks, CPU-wise. So people either do that or use their old armor blocks. Or they slowly replace their old designs with new armor, and rather than adding more armor as the limit goes up, use the CPU to add higher tier guns, and to add electroplates.

    On which note, I’ve actually made it a bit of a personal challenge to see how far I could push the default tank without completely scrapping it. It looks almost nothing like it originally did by now, of course, but this is what it has ended up turning into so far. Aside from its inflated block count and thus size (I only recently started advancing the default as a project again recently), I feel it matches the style many people probably use when they upgrade their existing vehicles.

    #544383

    Zanozus
    Participant

    60% of armor and no guns. Robocraft is so robocraft =-)

    #544422
    estile606
    estile606
    Participant

    ive actually seen a lot of designs like these in this forum.

    #544497

    broken egg
    Participant

    Hey , you know the mini boss thingy coming up could fit in very nicely at the lower levels . As someone suggests , higher level players might not choose to use their huge cpu to build a very large craft . If the system could detect a 1500 cpu build entering matchmake at lower levels , it might automatically adjust the matchmaking to accomodate the ‘elephant’ in the room . That could be alot of fun . Well , something along those lines .

    #544525

    TruePoindexter
    Participant

    It seems wasteful imho. It seems like you could chop off 20% of the tail for additional weapons and still be durable as hell. I seem to recall dmaiski having a build similar in idea (uber tank) that had layered spaced armor but still managed to fit a full complement of weapons while being smaller in size.

    #544542

    Trozoba
    Participant

    I see robots with massive undertiered armour and few weapons. I feel these bots a bit easy to disarm and so turn to RP lunch…

    #544593

    TruePoindexter
    Participant

    I see robots with massive undertiered armour and few weapons. I feel these bots a bit easy to disarm and so turn to RP lunch…

    That’s my sense. If you just stay calm and pick of the few guns they’d be an easy victim. In many of the videos linked here they end with getting stripped of weapons and slowly trying to roll away.

    #544619

    Italic
    Participant

    I don’t normally make gunbeds, but when I do, I use treadlike configurations

    #544624

    TruePoindexter
    Participant

    I don’t normally make gunbeds, but when I do, I use treadlike configurations

    That looks legitimately scary and unpleasant to encounter.

    #544909

    Yep, having few weapons in comparison to other bots is a problem. Quite surprisingly, playing as oversized tanks require a lot of tactical play rather than just blindly charging in. Knowing when to take cover and making a terrifying roll towards the enemy is vital, and when timed right, will rout even a force larger than the landship’s lonesome. Teamwork is pretty welcome, as it would be ideal for a landship to be supported by SMG (almost typed Infantry). The landship could soak up damage and deal crippling damage while the SMGs could help distract, harry and pick off enemy weapons.

    But yeah, you guys are right. Having few weapons is a huge problem. There are a few players who, like you claim you could, remain calm and attempt to disarm the landship. Which is why I plan to try to to build an artillery-style landship with a full complement of weapons, like you mentioned would work. In the meantime, maintaining distance and being tactical seems to work well as a landship.

    Just had a thought. Until megabots are introduced, landships are the closest thing to megabots 😀

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